---REPOST FROM XANGA JANUARY 2011---
"I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband."
why is God always describing beautiful things in terms of bridegrooms? it's so odd.
And how much more powerful is THIS metaphor -- a metaphor that is supposed to come as close to describing the indescribable?
i had a revelation - God understands man. He understands what man considers beautiful. Great skies - it's in the Bible. High mountains - in the Bible. Nature - in the Bible. Great goat looking women - it's in the Bible.. haha.
But what God, and the married man, understand as the most beautiful thing is this: a bridegroom catching his first glimpse of the ready-to-be-married bride. The first sight of her in her gown is the most beautiful thing he has ever seen. All the suspense and longing has built up to this point. He sees her. The eyes of the lovers are caught in a moment that seems endless. It's unexplainable. It's the closest, most beautiful experience a human can have. It's the best descriptor of heaven for mankind.
7.22.2011
Why Leprosy?
---REPOST FROM XANGA JANUARY 2011---
i always wondered why God chose to highlight leprosy of ALL the diseases. it seems like Jesus is always healing lepors. I can't really remember any other specific disease that the Bible mentions that Jesus healed (other than tumors), although I know there were TONS of them. but why always mention leprosy?
i think I have found a possibility.
When Pharaoh was holding the Israel captive in Egypt, God sent Moses and Aaron to lead the people out of slavery. Moses and Aaron were equipped by God to perform miracles, many of which Pharaoh's magicians duplicated (but usually not to the same degree). After Moses had given the message of the Lord to Pharaoh who replied with a hardened heart, God moved on to bigger attacks - plagues.
One of the plagues was boils and leprosy brought by dust (exo 9:8-12).
A few chapters later in Exodus 15:26, God promises Israel that if they do what is right in His eyes, then He will not bring any of the diseases that were brought on Egypt.
This is why leprosy is so important. It was a deal from God. The character of God that was exemplified through this deal was His role of Healer
When Jesus came, He manifested God's role of Healer in plain sight. Leprosy was important to Israel. It's the reason lepors became outcasts - because they had sinned against God in order to receive their disease. It wasn't crazy discrimination -- it was reasonable. This just makes Jesus' healing of lepors so much more powerful. He was not only healing Israelites, but He was healing people that had sinned against Him.
Speaking Carefully: Virginity
---REPOST FROM XANGA JANUARY 2011---
we set too many standards for the people around us by accident.
lots of people are too problematic with their words.
imagine the situation:
your non-Christian friend comes to your church. they ask you what they think of their sexual lifestyle.
you tell them, 'we, as Christians, are virgins; until marriage, of course.'
what have you done?
you have shown them that they can never fit in at your church b/c they cannot meet the standard of being a virgin.
if you had said, 'we, as Christians, have decided not to have sex until marriage', they can do that with a simple change of lifestyle.
the problem is that we made a requirement that has to do with our PRE-Christian, even pre-MOMENT, lifestyle. this is wrong.
All that matters is what is happening from this point into the future. you being away from sex since birth is the same as the guy who has had sex everyday since he was 6 and just decided to stop.
think over simple things and how to say them well and carefully. it's important.
lots of people are too problematic with their words.
imagine the situation:
your non-Christian friend comes to your church. they ask you what they think of their sexual lifestyle.
you tell them, 'we, as Christians, are virgins; until marriage, of course.'
what have you done?
you have shown them that they can never fit in at your church b/c they cannot meet the standard of being a virgin.
if you had said, 'we, as Christians, have decided not to have sex until marriage', they can do that with a simple change of lifestyle.
the problem is that we made a requirement that has to do with our PRE-Christian, even pre-MOMENT, lifestyle. this is wrong.
All that matters is what is happening from this point into the future. you being away from sex since birth is the same as the guy who has had sex everyday since he was 6 and just decided to stop.
think over simple things and how to say them well and carefully. it's important.
Humility & Great Gifts
---REPOST FROM XANGA NOVEMBER 2010---
Parable of the Lowest Seat [link: Luke 14:1-14]
it is better to start off low and get honored ('friend, move up to a better place.' - honor) than to go downwards ('give this man your seat' - humiliation).
The PROMISE: he who humbles himself will be exalted.
don't invite those who will likely repay you, invite those who won't be able to.
then you don't have to worry about whether you have any hidden motivations - you will be pure.
Parable of the Great Banquet [link: Luke 14:15-28]
most people know this parable really well.
they know that God wants to invite everyone.
they know that God first invited Israel, and eventually the Gentiles, including the outcasts.
cool.
but who paid attention to the servant who got everyone? i certainly didn't until I asked the Lord to teach me something new.
twas a good idea to do that, btw ;]
The servant is mentioned a couple times. He does the task the master orders him and then comes back with a report. Faithful guy. but his faithfulness isn't EXACTLY what we want to focus on. It's a little more specific.
v.22 says the servant reported, 'what you ordered has been done, but there is still room.'
what does this even tell us about the servant??
the servant isn't just doing the task he was assigned to, but is going beyond. interesting.. kinda/not rly.
the interesting part is WHY he is going beyond.
This servant has completely aligned his will with his master's. This is how he knows what the master wants to know (specifically that the amount of space allotted for the banquet hasn't been filled). He knows, and commits himself, to serving the master in every way possible, including the unexpressed ones.
This servant has adopted the goal of his master and lived by it. He has given us a perfect example of what a Christian should be like.
Our goal, as a Christian, is to fulfill every pleasure and sentiment of our Lord. we exist to serve and glorify Him, just like the servant.
We go through the tiring tasks of invitation and persuasion, begging all sorts of people to come celebrate at the banquet.
We tire ourselves out for the sake of our Master, and THEN do more than what we are commanded to.
We should go above and beyond to serve God as a Christian.
the problem isn't getting from doubt to confirmation. the problem is getting from confirmation to radical desire.
the problem isn't trying to go from half full to full. the problem is going from full to overflowing.
The 'Cost' of Being a Disciple [link: Luke 14:25-33]
if you try to build a tower without considering the cost, you might only be able to build half a tower =/
if you try to go to war without considering the size of your armies, you might lose the war! =o
"in the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple."
the point I want to make is this: your old understanding obtained by glancing over this verse b/c it's familiar doesn't apply here.
how in the world can 'going to war and possibly losing' have anything to do with 'sacrificing everything he owns for the sake of Christ'. it doesn't.
THE SAME WAY means these things are similar.
here we go... these two phrases, made general, are actually the same thing:
"if you don't PREPARE, you're gonna get a bad result."
so it all has to do with preparation.
but what are we going to be preparing for??
Why would we need to "give up everything" in order to be a disciple?
because the gift that a disciple receives is just that large!
unless your prepare and make a lot of room to receive it, you won't have enough room for it all: {eternal life, new beginning, new life, freedom, no guilt, confidence, identity as a KING rather than a piece of dirt, etc.}
Parable of the Lowest Seat [link: Luke 14:1-14]
it is better to start off low and get honored ('friend, move up to a better place.' - honor) than to go downwards ('give this man your seat' - humiliation).
The PROMISE: he who humbles himself will be exalted.
don't invite those who will likely repay you, invite those who won't be able to.
then you don't have to worry about whether you have any hidden motivations - you will be pure.
Parable of the Great Banquet [link: Luke 14:15-28]
most people know this parable really well.
they know that God wants to invite everyone.
they know that God first invited Israel, and eventually the Gentiles, including the outcasts.
cool.
but who paid attention to the servant who got everyone? i certainly didn't until I asked the Lord to teach me something new.
twas a good idea to do that, btw ;]
The servant is mentioned a couple times. He does the task the master orders him and then comes back with a report. Faithful guy. but his faithfulness isn't EXACTLY what we want to focus on. It's a little more specific.
v.22 says the servant reported, 'what you ordered has been done, but there is still room.'
what does this even tell us about the servant??
the servant isn't just doing the task he was assigned to, but is going beyond. interesting.. kinda/not rly.
the interesting part is WHY he is going beyond.
This servant has completely aligned his will with his master's. This is how he knows what the master wants to know (specifically that the amount of space allotted for the banquet hasn't been filled). He knows, and commits himself, to serving the master in every way possible, including the unexpressed ones.
This servant has adopted the goal of his master and lived by it. He has given us a perfect example of what a Christian should be like.
Our goal, as a Christian, is to fulfill every pleasure and sentiment of our Lord. we exist to serve and glorify Him, just like the servant.
We go through the tiring tasks of invitation and persuasion, begging all sorts of people to come celebrate at the banquet.
We tire ourselves out for the sake of our Master, and THEN do more than what we are commanded to.
We should go above and beyond to serve God as a Christian.
the problem isn't getting from doubt to confirmation. the problem is getting from confirmation to radical desire.
the problem isn't trying to go from half full to full. the problem is going from full to overflowing.
The 'Cost' of Being a Disciple [link: Luke 14:25-33]
if you try to build a tower without considering the cost, you might only be able to build half a tower =/
if you try to go to war without considering the size of your armies, you might lose the war! =o
"in the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple."
(now you think you're going to read this same thing that has ALWAYS been emphasized.. you must give up EVERYTHING, you must suffer and take up) (your cross etc. etc.)
(no. my goal is not to say the same stuff that you've already got down concretely. that's just pointless. I want to shed new light (at least for me))
(Trust me, I've been in church a long time and have heard LOTS OF sermons. I have a basic idea of what everyone knows and what they don't know.)
so why am i emphasizing everything?(no. my goal is not to say the same stuff that you've already got down concretely. that's just pointless. I want to shed new light (at least for me))
(Trust me, I've been in church a long time and have heard LOTS OF sermons. I have a basic idea of what everyone knows and what they don't know.)
the point I want to make is this: your old understanding obtained by glancing over this verse b/c it's familiar doesn't apply here.
how in the world can 'going to war and possibly losing' have anything to do with 'sacrificing everything he owns for the sake of Christ'. it doesn't.
THE SAME WAY means these things are similar.
here we go... these two phrases, made general, are actually the same thing:
"if you don't PREPARE, you're gonna get a bad result."
so it all has to do with preparation.
but what are we going to be preparing for??
Why would we need to "give up everything" in order to be a disciple?
because the gift that a disciple receives is just that large!
unless your prepare and make a lot of room to receive it, you won't have enough room for it all: {eternal life, new beginning, new life, freedom, no guilt, confidence, identity as a KING rather than a piece of dirt, etc.}
Slavery & Service
---REPOST FROM XANGA OCTOBER 2010---
thank you, Lord, for teaching me what it means to be a slave.
no appreciation.
not much listening.
they just order.
those are the facts -- but i don't care about them.
this slavery is out of love,
and love desires nothing in return.
it's not hard.
i make no sacrifices.
i love. and i love through service.
i'm naturally in bondage to everyone around me...
because of my love.
love enslaved me.
i'm understanding it more. keep me strong.
i'll be a slave.
i love to be a slave.
romans 12:5 "...in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others."
galatians 5:13 "do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, [use your freedom to] serve one another in love."
serve: douleuo, which means "to be a slave to."
thank you, Lord, for teaching me what it means to be a slave.
no appreciation.
not much listening.
they just order.
those are the facts -- but i don't care about them.
this slavery is out of love,
and love desires nothing in return.
it's not hard.
i make no sacrifices.
i love. and i love through service.
i'm naturally in bondage to everyone around me...
because of my love.
love enslaved me.
i'm understanding it more. keep me strong.
i'll be a slave.
i love to be a slave.
romans 12:5 "...in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others."
galatians 5:13 "do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, [use your freedom to] serve one another in love."
serve: douleuo, which means "to be a slave to."
Apologetics - Common Arguments
---REPOST FROM XANGA SEPTEMBER 2010---
In one philosophy class, I had these arguments quickly brought up against the validity of the Bible:
lightly discussed was the fact that the Bible was not literally correct, even in things that it should be, such as:
1) Lev. 11:6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
The problem, rabbits do not chew cud - they do not ruminate (which is regurgitating your food then mixing it with saliva to eat it again: like cows) but they do eat their dung and mix it with their new food - another way of regurgitating. The Hebrew language doesn't quite differentiate b/w these two types of regurgitating, and so we can't hold this against them. gerah is defined by strong as 'chewing the cud', however Ma'alat means 'that lifts (the food)'
2) 1 Kings 7:23 And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.
The diameter was 10cubits, but the circumference was 30?! that doesn't sound right (10 cubits x (pi or 3.14) ) doesn't equal 30. However, we do know that often times, rounding was used to describe measurements that the common peoples would see. In fact, any measure of circumference would have to be rounded because pi is not a unique number. They also did not have the same precision for measuring. But, we may be able to expect 2 'significant digits' to be recorded (i.e. 31 instead of 30). So this explanation is not as strong as we would like.
Another thing to take into consideration, as Nehemiah (a Hebrew Rabbi and author of the earliest known Hebrew geometry book) says: "Since the people of the world say that the circumference of a circle contains three times and one seventh of the thread, take off that one seventh for the thickness of the walls of the sea on the two brims, then there remain, Thirty cubits did compass it round about."
Yet another thing to consider is if the 1st measurement, the 10 cubits, was actually 9.64ish. Then, the circumference would be 30.3ish.
In one philosophy class, I had these arguments quickly brought up against the validity of the Bible:
lightly discussed was the fact that the Bible was not literally correct, even in things that it should be, such as:
1) Lev. 11:6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
The problem, rabbits do not chew cud - they do not ruminate (which is regurgitating your food then mixing it with saliva to eat it again: like cows) but they do eat their dung and mix it with their new food - another way of regurgitating. The Hebrew language doesn't quite differentiate b/w these two types of regurgitating, and so we can't hold this against them. gerah is defined by strong as 'chewing the cud', however Ma'alat means 'that lifts (the food)'
2) 1 Kings 7:23 And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.
The diameter was 10cubits, but the circumference was 30?! that doesn't sound right (10 cubits x (pi or 3.14) ) doesn't equal 30. However, we do know that often times, rounding was used to describe measurements that the common peoples would see. In fact, any measure of circumference would have to be rounded because pi is not a unique number. They also did not have the same precision for measuring. But, we may be able to expect 2 'significant digits' to be recorded (i.e. 31 instead of 30). So this explanation is not as strong as we would like.
Another thing to take into consideration, as Nehemiah (a Hebrew Rabbi and author of the earliest known Hebrew geometry book) says: "Since the people of the world say that the circumference of a circle contains three times and one seventh of the thread, take off that one seventh for the thickness of the walls of the sea on the two brims, then there remain, Thirty cubits did compass it round about."
Yet another thing to consider is if the 1st measurement, the 10 cubits, was actually 9.64ish. Then, the circumference would be 30.3ish.
Evangelism with Love
---REPOST FROM XANGA JULY 2010---
Love Evangelism vs. Intellectual Evangelism vs. Tract Evangelism
if salvation comes from a change in the heart, and not in the mind, then our evangelism should be focused at the heart.
our logical arguments pale in comparison to the supernatural love that we have.
would you rather believe in an almighty being because someone gave you a good reason, or because you witnessed that almighty being show love to YOU (either directly or through a person)?
we are so focused on being efficient with our tracts because we have a whole world to reach. we are so focused on having the right arguments, using the right words, how to use persuasion without deception, even how to train others to do these things!
The problem with this focus is that it misses the whole point of the Gospel. we are SHARING THE GOSPEL, not sharing theology or ideas. the Gospel is a love story - how do you expect to share it without love?!
Sharing the Gospel is mostly thought to be an audio or written thing. We tell someone the 'Good News' or we 'share the Gospel' with someone - essentially, we tell them a story riddled with the beliefs.
How often do these people make advances? How often do these people face rejection? How often do the new believers from these methods struggle with the very thing they were taught? (That God loves us).
The reason that the results are so poor is because our Gospel-sharing lacks love. it lacks action. it lacks the washing of feet, it lacks the faith-born miracles, it lacks the sharing of food and money, it lacks the healing and renewing power of supernatural love.
I've heard a lot of people say that supernatural ministry is the most effective. I agreed with them - who wouldn't want to believe in the God who can do crazy miracles, who can heal countless people from incurable diseases, the God who can defy the laws of physics to make a point?! I still agree, but now with the greater understanding that LOVE is the CORNERSTONE of the spiritual gifts.
Love is hands down the greatest, in experience (and explicitly stated in the Bible: 1Cor 13:13) and in theory. Love is what ministers to the heart. Love is what draws people in. Love is what keeps people coming. Love is what ultimately drives a person to what he/she wants.
What we as Christians are selling is the ability to love something that won't fade. Even greater, the ability to love something that can LOVE US BACK EVEN MORE!
it IS mind-blowing - but we just say that it is and never have our minds blown! (no wonder people think we're hypocrites).
we tell them stories about Jesus who did all these wonderful things, and they think 'well that's cool, but how come I never see you Christians do these things for ME?'.
The reason is because we love to serve through organizations and church institutions.
we hardly serve the body.
and we scarcely directly serve the people around us.
when's the last time you knocked on a neighbor's door and asked if they needed help with anything?
never? (that's my answer.. sigh)
so keep your arguments&tracts stored in your mind for WHEN THE PERSON ASKS; and START LOVING NOW.
start serving now - there is no easier way to show someone devotion & love than by serving.
our logical arguments pale in comparison to the supernatural love that we have.
would you rather believe in an almighty being because someone gave you a good reason, or because you witnessed that almighty being show love to YOU (either directly or through a person)?
we are so focused on being efficient with our tracts because we have a whole world to reach. we are so focused on having the right arguments, using the right words, how to use persuasion without deception, even how to train others to do these things!
The problem with this focus is that it misses the whole point of the Gospel. we are SHARING THE GOSPEL, not sharing theology or ideas. the Gospel is a love story - how do you expect to share it without love?!
Sharing the Gospel is mostly thought to be an audio or written thing. We tell someone the 'Good News' or we 'share the Gospel' with someone - essentially, we tell them a story riddled with the beliefs.
How often do these people make advances? How often do these people face rejection? How often do the new believers from these methods struggle with the very thing they were taught? (That God loves us).
The reason that the results are so poor is because our Gospel-sharing lacks love. it lacks action. it lacks the washing of feet, it lacks the faith-born miracles, it lacks the sharing of food and money, it lacks the healing and renewing power of supernatural love.
I've heard a lot of people say that supernatural ministry is the most effective. I agreed with them - who wouldn't want to believe in the God who can do crazy miracles, who can heal countless people from incurable diseases, the God who can defy the laws of physics to make a point?! I still agree, but now with the greater understanding that LOVE is the CORNERSTONE of the spiritual gifts.
Love is hands down the greatest, in experience (and explicitly stated in the Bible: 1Cor 13:13) and in theory. Love is what ministers to the heart. Love is what draws people in. Love is what keeps people coming. Love is what ultimately drives a person to what he/she wants.
What we as Christians are selling is the ability to love something that won't fade. Even greater, the ability to love something that can LOVE US BACK EVEN MORE!
it IS mind-blowing - but we just say that it is and never have our minds blown! (no wonder people think we're hypocrites).
we tell them stories about Jesus who did all these wonderful things, and they think 'well that's cool, but how come I never see you Christians do these things for ME?'.
The reason is because we love to serve through organizations and church institutions.
we hardly serve the body.
and we scarcely directly serve the people around us.
when's the last time you knocked on a neighbor's door and asked if they needed help with anything?
never? (that's my answer.. sigh)
so keep your arguments&tracts stored in your mind for WHEN THE PERSON ASKS; and START LOVING NOW.
start serving now - there is no easier way to show someone devotion & love than by serving.
Rebuttal Against 'Defense of Cessationism'
---REPOST FROM XANGA JUNE 2010---
The point is not to prove a side correct, but to show that these arguments are no good at destroying Continuationism. My responses are in italics.
from http://www.realgospel.org/articles/Cessationism-Defended :Reason 1 - The Scriptures Are Sufficient For Every Good Work
2 Timothy 3:16-17 says, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work." This passage explains that the scriptures are sufficient for our sanctification. It doesn't say that the scriptures equip us for some works, but we need the gifts of tongues or prophecy to really experience super spirituality. It says that the scriptures are sufficient to equip us for every good work.
The basics of Continuationism do not claim that the gifts of tongues or prophecy are needed to experience super spirituality. There is no need in even mentioning super spirituality. The verse plainly says that the Scriptures are enough to equip us for every good work - it's sharper than a double-edged sword. Nobody disagrees with this. This does not prove that gifts are not available, only that they are not necessary. A pair of scissors is fine for cutting a lawn - it'll do the job - but if you are gifted with a lawn mower, you'll use it. We can do works with or without the 1 Cor 12 spiritual gifts. Everyone agrees on this.
The basics of Continuationism do not claim that the gifts of tongues or prophecy are needed to experience super spirituality. There is no need in even mentioning super spirituality. The verse plainly says that the Scriptures are enough to equip us for every good work - it's sharper than a double-edged sword. Nobody disagrees with this. This does not prove that gifts are not available, only that they are not necessary. A pair of scissors is fine for cutting a lawn - it'll do the job - but if you are gifted with a lawn mower, you'll use it. We can do works with or without the 1 Cor 12 spiritual gifts. Everyone agrees on this.
Reason 2 - The Scriptures Are Sufficient For Salvation
The scriptures are also sufficient for saving souls. Romans 1:16 says, "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek." Those who would promote so called "power evangelism" argue that the gifts are important evangelistic tools. They would argue that miracles and demonstrations of the power of God would cause someone to believe in the gospel. In the story of the rich man and Lazarus, told by Jesus in Luke 16, the rich man in hell begs Abraham to send Lazarus "to my father's house, for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment" (vs. 27b-28). Abraham then says "They have Moses and the prophets". The rich man argued the same argument as "power evangelists" do today. "No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent" (vs. 30). Abraham's reply is this, "If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead." So miracles do nothing to save the lost. God must first perform a sovereign work of regeneration before someone can believe.
The children of Israel witnessed many many miracles. They witnessed the 10 plagues in Egypt. They saw the parting of the Red Sea. They were guided by the pillar of fire at night and the pillar of cloud during the day. They were fed manna (a picture of Christ) for food. The drank from the rock (a picture of Christ) in the dessert. They heard God's very voice on Mt. Sinai. But, was this enough to give them faith? No, Hebrews says that they all died in the wilderness (except the families of Moses, Aaron, and Caleb) because of unbelief.
For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses? Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. - Hebrews 3:16-19
What did those miracles accomplish for those who died in the wilderness? They served as greater judgement for them in hell. But to God's elect they serve as a witness of God's power and deliverance in salvation.
God has not chosen the gifts of tongues and prophecy as His means of producing faith in unbelievers. Instead, "it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe." (1 Cor. 1:21).
Continualists do not necessarily believe that 'power evangelism' is needed. Thus, the Romans 1 passage also has nothing to do with Continuationism vs. Cessationism. The funny thing about this passage is that it says 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.' You cannot use the argument that sign gifts are useless at saving the lost if they worked for Moses. The point of this passage is not that these revelatory gifts (like prophecy, by Moses in this case) are useless in evangelism, but that all things are useless to someone as stubborn as this rich man! He didn't even hear the profound and capturing words through Moses. [side note: We know that miracles were okay for persuading belief in Jesus' authority - John 10:38 - But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.']
Continualists do not necessarily believe that 'power evangelism' is needed. Thus, the Romans 1 passage also has nothing to do with Continuationism vs. Cessationism. The funny thing about this passage is that it says 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.' You cannot use the argument that sign gifts are useless at saving the lost if they worked for Moses. The point of this passage is not that these revelatory gifts (like prophecy, by Moses in this case) are useless in evangelism, but that all things are useless to someone as stubborn as this rich man! He didn't even hear the profound and capturing words through Moses. [side note: We know that miracles were okay for persuading belief in Jesus' authority - John 10:38 - But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.']
Hebrews 1:1-2 says the following:
God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;
The Greek word elalesen (spoken) is an aorist tense verb. The aorist tense indicates an action that has been completed in the past. Is God still speaking to us today through new revelation (tongues and prophecy)? No, because God has already spoken through His Son. His revelation is complete. But when did God speak by His Son? The answer can be found in John.
"These things I have spoken to you while being present with you. But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. - John 14:25-26
“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you. - John 16:12-15
From these passages we see that the Apostles are not given anything apart from Jesus. Jesus was the true prophet. He had a set doctrine or teaching that he wanted to pass on to the disciples. However, the Holy Spirit would cause them to remember the things that Jesus taught. Even Paul was directly taught by the risen Jesus Christ (see Gal. 1:12 & 1 Cor. 11:23). Jesus is very clear in this passage that the Holy Spirit will speak only the things He hears from the Son (see "He will take of Mine and declare it to you" in vs 15). That is why the early church needed the gift of prophecy and tongues while the canon (list of books considered scripture) was being completed by the disciples. Theses gifts (as well as miracles) also authenticated the message being delivered.
The canon of scripture was eventually finished by John with the following warning in Revelations.
For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. - Rev. 22:18-19
When John wrote Revelation, he was aware of the fact that he was the only surviving eye witness and apostle. Therefore, this warning can be understood in a much broader sense than just the book of Revelation.
I have yet to find a new translation of the Bible that contains new revelation from a modern day tongues and prophecy. But why not? If a new tongue or prophecy is from God, then it should be recognized as the very words of God and added to the back of every Bible. Why should there be any distinction? If God has really spoken through a modern day prophet, then His words today should cary the same authority as His words spoken long ago. Many who argue that tongues and prophecy are for today would balk at such an idea. They know that their modern day tongue or prophecy do not have the same authority as scripture. But they fail to explain why.
My take on Hebrews 1:1-2 is that 'these last days' refers literally to these last days when Jesus was with them. Jesus' ministry was obvious. Plus, this is only half the sentence. In the greek, vv. 1-4 are all one sentence. The point of the sentence is to declare how superior Christ is. Usually when you are declaring something as the best, you compare it to the next best thing. Prophets were regarded as the greatest spiritual people. They were equipped with messages from God and outstanding miracles. I believe the reason the writer of Hebrews (and so many other writers of the NT) point out the prophets is to show that not even these 'great' people are a worthy comparison to that of Christ. The point is this: Christ is superior, even to the prophets.
To be clear, I agree that the Spirit brought things into remembrance at least for the disciples. The passages in John can also be understood to be further revelation by the Spirit through prophecy. We also need to note that the Spirit will not ONLY bring things to remembrance, for we were to be taught more by the Spirit after Jesus' Ascension (John 16:12-15). wups i put this in the wrong section: Another big problem with this argument is that many of the churches legitimately spoke in tongues and prophesied over each other, but we do not have records of what they spoke or said to each other in our canon of the Bible. why? because they are not expected to be part of the Bible - they're expected to edify the church.
My take on Hebrews 1:1-2 is that 'these last days' refers literally to these last days when Jesus was with them. Jesus' ministry was obvious. Plus, this is only half the sentence. In the greek, vv. 1-4 are all one sentence. The point of the sentence is to declare how superior Christ is. Usually when you are declaring something as the best, you compare it to the next best thing. Prophets were regarded as the greatest spiritual people. They were equipped with messages from God and outstanding miracles. I believe the reason the writer of Hebrews (and so many other writers of the NT) point out the prophets is to show that not even these 'great' people are a worthy comparison to that of Christ. The point is this: Christ is superior, even to the prophets.
To be clear, I agree that the Spirit brought things into remembrance at least for the disciples. The passages in John can also be understood to be further revelation by the Spirit through prophecy. We also need to note that the Spirit will not ONLY bring things to remembrance, for we were to be taught more by the Spirit after Jesus' Ascension (John 16:12-15). wups i put this in the wrong section: Another big problem with this argument is that many of the churches legitimately spoke in tongues and prophesied over each other, but we do not have records of what they spoke or said to each other in our canon of the Bible. why? because they are not expected to be part of the Bible - they're expected to edify the church.
Reason 4 - Our Hearts Are Deceitful Above All Things
Jeremiah 17:9 says the following about our hearts
“The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it?
Yet so many charismatics blindly follow inclinations and feelings in their heart that they think are from God. I once did this myself. My heart was deceiving myself into thinking that I was receiving revelation from God, when that revelation actually was coming from my own imagination and vanity. I was so deceived, that I actually thought that by making strange nonsensical noises, I was able to speak in an "angelic language". Jeremiah 23:25-26 explains that false prophecy comes from the deceit of our own hearts.
"I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy lies in My name, saying, ‘I have dreamed, I have dreamed!’ How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Indeed they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart," - Jer. 23:25-26
"Is not My word like a fire?” says the LORD, And like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?" - Jer. 23:29
How do we know if a tongue or prophecy is from God? After all, it could be our imagination, or a hallucination. Charismatics usually have two answers for this.
- They quote 1 John 4:1 out of context, which says, "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God." The charismatic would interpret this passage by saying that we are to ask the spirit (the voice in our head) whether Jesus came in the flesh. But this is not what John is asking us to do. He is telling the church to test those who claim to be prophets by examining their doctrine. That is why John warns them that "many false prophets have gone out into the world".
- Secondly, those who believe that tongues and prophecy are for today usually say that a tongue or prophecy can be validated by comparing it with scripture. But if every prophecy must be compared with scripture, then why do we need the new tongue or prophecy.
The second point is based on the assumption that we need these gifts, which we don't. It's just nice to have them - they are extra, just like the lawn mower - just like mercy, pastors & teachers, just like encouragement. Also, a prophecy or tongue is not validated by Scripture, it can only be proven false by Scripture. I could say a million things that conform with Scripture, but none of them may be true. I would say that most people understand this fact and do not use the Bible as a means to VALIDATE, but only to DISPROVE.
Another big problem with this argument is that many of the churches legitimately spoke in tongues and prophesied over each other, but we do not have records of what they spoke or said to each other in our canon of the Bible. why? because they are not expected to be part of the Bible - they're expected to edify the church.
Reason 5 - We Are To Focus on God's Revealed Will
Many would argue that tongues and prophecy help us to understand God's secret plan for our lives. In this way, it is said that we can "get in on what God is going". Should we be focused on God's secret will? Actually, the Bible tells us the opposite.
“The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law. - Deut. 29:29
Instead of worrying about missing out on God's plan, we should trust that God is sovereign enough to direct us by orchestrating events according to His providence. This is tremendously freeing because we no longer need to worry about looking for signs of God's secret will (which is superstition). Believers never miss out on something "better" because "all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose" (Romans 8:28). This frees us to focus on obeying His revealed will (i.e. ten commandments). God will take care of the rest. Jesus says "If you love Me, keep My commandments" (John 14:15). He doesn't tell us to focus on new revelation. Instead, we are to focus our attention and energies on what He has revealed, "My commandments".
We are also told several times in the scriptures not to "interpret omens" (see Lev. 19:26 Deut. 18:10). However, this is exactly what Charismatics do when they interpret current events as signs from God.
This can be read to mean exactly the opposite. The secret things belong to the Lord our God (things that we do not know), but those things which are revealed (possibly through prophecy or tongues) belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of his law. It's ambiguous and not very good for making this point. Nevertheless, I understand what he meant. Many Continualists get caught up in seeking prophecy and tongues while ignoring other commands the Bible clearly gives us. That is a problem, but it is not the problem of the ideal Continualist who we are talking about.
I would also hazard to say that people who do not seek prophecy and tongues are MORE prone to seeking out 'God's secret will' through the physical, 'orchestrated' events and coincidences. If someone offers you a job out of the blue, it must be God's plan for you - this is not true! Satan offered Jesus all the kingdoms of the world. These are the people more prone to superstition by these terms.
I entirely disagree with the statement: 'Believers never miss out on something 'better' because 'all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.' Romans 8:28 is basically saying that God will never again forsake us, and the evidence is that all things will work for the good of those who love Him. Let's say that you know that God's will for you is to do thing A (preach to Nineveh). Instead of going to location A, you decide to disobey and go to location B (let's say.. Tarshish). Of course, going to location A would have been best, it was the will of God! But, going to location B opened up a lot of doors, like getting in a huge storm and being swallowed by a big fish. By the author's understanding, this is much better than just going straight to Nineveh. However, we can understand that this verse means that regardless of our decision to obey His will, He will love us and work for our good - it's His promised character after the covenant with Noah (not to destroy His created people). What I am saying is that Jonah probably would have had a much more pleasant time going straight to Nineveh than taking the round-about trip. This proves that Romans 8:28 doesn't talk about things being the BEST for those who love Him. Obviously, things are the best for those who follow His will, because He is faithful.
Thus, there really isn't any more 'safety and assurance' than the Continalist. Both parties have the same right to this truth, their belief in the continuation of spiritual gifts does not effect this.
This can be read to mean exactly the opposite. The secret things belong to the Lord our God (things that we do not know), but those things which are revealed (possibly through prophecy or tongues) belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of his law. It's ambiguous and not very good for making this point. Nevertheless, I understand what he meant. Many Continualists get caught up in seeking prophecy and tongues while ignoring other commands the Bible clearly gives us. That is a problem, but it is not the problem of the ideal Continualist who we are talking about.
I would also hazard to say that people who do not seek prophecy and tongues are MORE prone to seeking out 'God's secret will' through the physical, 'orchestrated' events and coincidences. If someone offers you a job out of the blue, it must be God's plan for you - this is not true! Satan offered Jesus all the kingdoms of the world. These are the people more prone to superstition by these terms.
I entirely disagree with the statement: 'Believers never miss out on something 'better' because 'all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.' Romans 8:28 is basically saying that God will never again forsake us, and the evidence is that all things will work for the good of those who love Him. Let's say that you know that God's will for you is to do thing A (preach to Nineveh). Instead of going to location A, you decide to disobey and go to location B (let's say.. Tarshish). Of course, going to location A would have been best, it was the will of God! But, going to location B opened up a lot of doors, like getting in a huge storm and being swallowed by a big fish. By the author's understanding, this is much better than just going straight to Nineveh. However, we can understand that this verse means that regardless of our decision to obey His will, He will love us and work for our good - it's His promised character after the covenant with Noah (not to destroy His created people). What I am saying is that Jonah probably would have had a much more pleasant time going straight to Nineveh than taking the round-about trip. This proves that Romans 8:28 doesn't talk about things being the BEST for those who love Him. Obviously, things are the best for those who follow His will, because He is faithful.
Thus, there really isn't any more 'safety and assurance' than the Continalist. Both parties have the same right to this truth, their belief in the continuation of spiritual gifts does not effect this.
Reason 6 - The Imperatives in 1 Corinthians 12:31 and 14:1 Are Mistranslations
Some would quote the following verses to show that we should "earnestly desire the best gifts" (prophecy, tongues, etc).
"But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way." - 1 Cor. 12:31
"Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy." - 1 Cor. 14:1
The Greek word for "earnestly desire" in vs 12:31 and "desire" in vs. 14:1 is zhlouvte (zaloute), which is a second person plural present active verb. The question at hand is whether this verb is in the imperative (a command) or indicative (a statement of fact) mood. The Greek verb ending -te is the verb ending for both imperative and indicative. In fact, Johannes P. Louw and Eugene A. Nida's Greek-English Lexicon even states that "It is also possible to understand zhlouvte in 1Cor 12:31 as being indicative and therefore translated as ‘you set your hearts on the more important gifts.’"
So, we need to look at the context to tell us if this verb is in the imperative or indicative mood. I would argue that the indicative mood makes much more sense with the subversive "yet I show you a more excellent way". In other words, Paul was stating the fact that they were zealously desiring the best gifts, which was causing divisions (chap. 12). Instead of desiring tongues and prophecy, they should have been desiring love, which in Paul's terms was "a more excellent way" (chap. 13).
The same is the case for 14:1. He tells them to pursue (diw¿kete - follow with haste) love. This verb should be translated as an imperative because of the context of chapter 13. Then the next verb "desire" (zhlouvte) should be translated indicative (statement of fact). Why? Because of the context of verse 14:12, which is a summary of 14:1-11.
"Even so you, since you are zealous for spiritual gifts, let it be for the edification of the church that you seek to excel." - 1 Cor. 14:12
Paul is stating that "since" they were zealous for spiritual gifts (indicative again), their overall concern should be for the edification of the church. There are no commands in scripture to seek spiritual gifts. Spiritual gifts are sovereignly given by the Holy Spirit and are not given to everyone in the same way (1 Cor. 12:30). That is why they are called gifts.
Honestly, I'm not very good with these words and definitions, but I do know that even if they are to pursue mostly after love, the other gifts can still exist. We are to pursue after God, yet marriage and the world and the sky and heaven all exist. So, I believe that when we are told that love is the greatest of these, that we should pursue love the most. By my view, spiritual gifts are ways of expressing love towards the church and expressing praise to God. Encouragement is a perfect example of this. We encourage others in the church and express love, and glorify God by acknowledging and proclaiming that His creation is good.
I don't understand how he got to the conclusion that the Bible never says to seek after spiritual gifts. I figured it out. But, Solomon asked for wisdom after sacrificing a thousand burnt offering on Gibeon.
I'm really not sure whether we should desire spiritual gifts at this point, but I will find out soon.
Either way, the gifts still exist even if we do not desire after them. This argument is no good against Continuationism.
Either way, the gifts still exist even if we do not desire after them. This argument is no good against Continuationism.
Reason 7 - The Scriptures Tell Us That The Revelatory Gifts Have Ceased
Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away. When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known. And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love. - 1 Corinthians 13:8-13
It is clear from this passage that tongues, prophecy, and words of knowledge will cease. The main issue is when they will cease. It is interesting to note that these three gifts are specifically called out as being temporary, in contrast to faith, hope and love. Why? I believe it is because they are revelatory.
Verse 10 tells us exactly when these gifts will cease, namely "when that which is perfect has come". The Greek word telios (perfect) means "brought to its end, finished; lacking nothing necessary to completeness; perfect" according to Thayer's Greek Lexicon and "having reached its end, finished, complete" according to the Liddell & Scott Greek lexicon. In other words, when the finishing of something has come, these gifts will cease. Here are some common interpretations of the word "perfect" (telios) in 1 Cor. 13:10.
- maturity attained in our glorified state. This mixes metaphors (explained below).
- the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ. However, Christ is never described in the neuter gender. This also mixes metaphors (explained below).
- the completion of the canon.
I believe the 3rd interpretation is correct for the following reasons. Firstly, this interpretation better explains how prophecy, tongues and words of new knowledge are incomplete (see "For we know in part and we prophecy in part" in verse 9). They are incomplete because, at that period in history, God had not completed them. Secondly, the third interpretation fits perfectly with the two metaphors that Paul uses to explain how the church's knowledge will become complete. The two metaphors that Paul uses to explain the contrast between knowing or prophesying in part and complete knowledge are as follows:
- knowledge of a child vs. knowledge of a man
- seeing through a dim mirror vs. seeing face to face
It can not be emphasized enough that these metaphors must be taken as metaphors. The first mistake people make in this passage is to interpret the "face to face" as the 2nd coming of Christ. But this would be mixing the metaphor ("seeing in a mirror") with something real (seeing Jesus Christ at His 2nd coming). Paul would never mix a metaphor with reality. If the first part is metaphorical (seeing in a mirror) so must the 2nd part (seeing in face to face). So, Paul is telling us that the completion of the canon will be like looking at someone face to face, compared to looking through the dim reflection of a 1st century mirror.
I believe that they are temporary because they are partial. We know them only as partial, because they are certain occurrences in time, revelations. When the perfect comes, Second Coming, the partial will pass away and complete KNOWING will be. There will be no need for revelation in this sense because 'all things will be made known to us.'
The older, mature man puts away his childish thoughts, but he doesn't stop thinking. He puts away his childish words, but doesn't stop speaking. When complete knowledge comes, we will put away the partial because we have something greater, just like the man has greater vocabulary and a greater mental/reasoning capacity.
My Thoughts:
This guy may have left because his church was teaching him that these gifts were necessary for the advancement of the church. He may have been in a church that believed in tongues as proof of salvation and who believed in 'baptism of the spirit' as necessary for salvation. These do not have anything to do with Cessationism vs. Continuationism. They are side problems.
Making arguments based off of assumptions that a smaller party holds the same beliefs as the larger party's core beliefs is dangerous. Charismatics are a sect of Continuationism - not the measuring stick to make arguments based off of.
You also need to address the CORE and NECESSARY beliefs of the idea, not the ones that can be viewed as possible.
You also need to look at the situation ideally, or theoretically, rather than pointing out the flaws in the humans who are involved in the situation.
another one - this should be labeled an Offense against Charismatics rather than a Defense of Cessationism. Slightly misleading, but it's good to go through these arguments anyways.
Dead to sin; alive in Christ
---REPOST FROM XANGA JUNE 2010---
Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus (Romans 6:4-11).
old self? it got crucified - that body of sin was done away with. we are no longer slaves to sin. we are freed from sin.
we live with Christ. Christ lives IN us [gal 2:20 - it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me].
want to live under the rule of the sinful nature? go ahead, raise your dead body up; empower it and the prince who holds it.
When we believe something is going to go wrong, we have given our faith to the enemy. fear is the manifestation of faith in the wrong kingdom.
**** EDIT **** SUMMARY STATEMENTS
we are saints because we are new creations and that is the title given to us as a Christian - our sinful nature is not with us because it got crucified like Christ (when we becamse Christians, not when Christ died) and left behind when we were raises as new Creations.
Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus (Romans 6:4-11).
old self? it got crucified - that body of sin was done away with. we are no longer slaves to sin. we are freed from sin.
we live with Christ. Christ lives IN us [gal 2:20 - it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me].
want to live under the rule of the sinful nature? go ahead, raise your dead body up; empower it and the prince who holds it.
When we believe something is going to go wrong, we have given our faith to the enemy. fear is the manifestation of faith in the wrong kingdom.
**** EDIT **** SUMMARY STATEMENTS
we are saints because we are new creations and that is the title given to us as a Christian - our sinful nature is not with us because it got crucified like Christ (when we becamse Christians, not when Christ died) and left behind when we were raises as new Creations.
Saint, Not Sinner - Kris Vallotton
---REPOST FROM XANGA JUNE 2010---
Excerpt from Kris Vallotton:
Now that we understand that names aren’t just a matter of semantics, let’s take a closer look at how names affect us. Before we received Christ we were called “sinners.” We were professionals; our name was a job description. We were prone to sin. When we received Christ we became “saints.” Paul makes this clear in his letters to the believers because he called them saints. Here are a few examples: “To all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as saints” (Rom. 1:7a); “To the church of God, which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling” (1 Cor. 1:2a); “Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, to the saints who are at Ephesus and who are faithful in Christ Jesus” (Eph. 1:1). The word saint means, “holy believer.” You can’t be a sinner and a saint
at the same time. How is it possible to be prone to sin and still be a holy believer?
at the same time. How is it possible to be prone to sin and still be a holy believer?
The word “sinner” implies that we are prone to do wrong. If we believe that we are sinners, we will sin by faith! Remember what we learned earlier, “For as [a man] thinks within himself, so he is” (Prov. 23:7). Like Jacob, trapped in deception by his name, if we still believe we are sinners, we will be unable to access the grace to live as a saint and will still try to perform good works in order to merit forgiveness. It is not our nature to sin anymore. First John 3:7-9 says,
Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
We are Christians; it is not our nature to do wrong. Our very nature has been changed. Now we are actually saints; righteousness is part of our new nature and it is natural for us to glorify God. Our old man is buried. We need to stop visiting our tombs and talking to our dead, old man. (In the Old Testament, people were judged and killed for talking to the dead—a practice called necromancy.) We are a new creation. It’s below our nature to act like that now—we are now princes and princesses of the King!
The power of the cross not only dealt with the forgiveness of our sins but it also changed our very nature. Some people have isolated the effects of the born-again experience to the spirit. That’s not accurate. Salvation changed our entire being! Peter says that we are “partakers of the divine nature” (2 Pet. 1:4). Think of it, your very nature is now divine! Paul said that we our “new creatures” in Christ (2 Cor. 5:17). He didn’t say we are new spirits, He said “new creatures!” If we believe that we are still sinners, we dilute the power of the blood and then, like Jacob, spend our days trying to be good.
We still have a free will, and we can still choose to sin. However, as saints it doesn’t come easily anymore.
“It is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me” (Gal. 2:20)
“It is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me” (Gal. 2:20)
[http://www.kvministries.com/index.php?page=Supernatural%20Ways%20Chapter%205]
Where do we go when we die? Part 1 & 2
---REPOST FROM XANGA MAY 2010---
***WILL BE UPDATING THIS JULY 2011***
PART 1: INCOMPLETE without PART 2
i have decided that following popular belief is ignorant, as I am sure most of you have.
Noah was building the ark and his family was the only one that was saved. All but Noah's family was wicked and wrong. It wouldn't have been a good idea to roll with the majority on this one.
The biggest step in not necessarily going with the popular belief is distinguishing whether the popular belief is biblically-based or man-based. Of course, we only want to believe what is biblically based.
Right now, I am trying to find out whether or not people go to heaven immediately when we die. It is FOR SURE popular belief for Christians that they go to heaven. I want to know whether or not it is right to say R.I.P. or 'have fun in heaven' when someone dies. I, personally, have always done the latter, because that is what I have grown up to believe. However, I am going through this exercise to help me (and others) establish a sensitivity for the truth. Because this is not really an issue of matter, (you won't be doing much on Earth if you are dead or in heaven), it is only an exercise. No stress should be created from discovering this. The answer only matters for truth's sake, and not for application's sake (with the exception of the R.I.P./fun-in-heaven application). The exercise should help me to have a sensitivity to the truth and begin to believe in things because of the Bible and not because of tradition.
I am ultimately seeking after truth, so if you have wisdom to lay out, please do.
The 1 Thessalonians Insight
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 says: For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
The dead in Christ will rise first - these refer to the righteous dead (which, if people don't go to heaven immediately after they die, could refer to Christians & OT'ers who were obedient and faithful to God) -
After that, we who are still alive and left - the righteous living (which would refer to Christians in any case).
We can conclude that the dead in Christ refers to be literally dead, and not people who 'died so that they may receive life' because earlier, in 1 Thess. 4:13-15 the same words (dead/asleep & left/alive) are used.
There are definitely two different sets of people in this illustration, and I believe the only way two separate groups could go to heaven is if one group was left dead on the Earth as believers and another group was left alive on the Earth as believers.
Also, the fact that 1 Thessalonians 4:13-15 refers to the dead as 'those who have fallen asleep' lends insight to this possibility.
The Acts 2 Insight
v29 says: 'Brothers, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day.' vv.30-33 explains that David was a prophet who knew God's oath to him and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, and knew that he was not abandoned to the grave. v.34 says: For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said, "The Lord said to my Lord: 'Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.' "
This can either be taken to mean that David never ascended to heaven, or that David wrote these things without first ascending to heaven. But why even mention that David the patriarch died and his tomb is still here to this day? Personally, because of that verse, I learn more toward David never ascending to heaven.
The Jude 9 Insight
this one is a little bit more tricky. Jude 9 MAY or may not make a direct reference to 'The Assumptions of Moses' which could or could not be entirely inspired. Inspired or not, Jude 9 makes a reference and thus shows that at least this reference is historically accurate. The Assumptions of Moses talks about the account of Moses’ appointing of Joshua as his successor, and a description of the future of Israel during the conquest of the Promised Land, the biblical account of Moses’ death, showing how God used angels to bury Moses. The Assumptions of Moses is sometimes known as the Testament of Moses, but in the cases of two men, Ceriani and Charles, the two seem to be separate texts. Charles argues that the 'Assumption of Moses' should not be called the The Assumption, but 'The Testament of Moses' because it never mentions the Ascension/Assumption of Moses. Ceriani, however, says that the text DOES mention the ascension.
Because of all this ambiguity, I hold this insight EXTREMELY lightly. Jude 9 doesn't scream out 'Moses was specially ressurrected by the archangel Michael after rebuking Satan after Moses' death'. <- (This is what some people claim it says and why this passage is included in my possible insights).
The Psalm 146:4 Insight (not about heaven, but death)
Death is explained to be when your breath/spirit departs (reference to the breath of Life given only by God): 'When their spirit departs, they return to the ground; on that very day their plans come to nothing.'
The Luke 23:43 Contradiction
Jesus says to the thief, 'I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.'
From this, the thief and Jesus went to heaven on that very day! This is totally the opposite of all the insight we have received.
Double Contradiction: John 20:17
Jesus appears to Mary Magdelene saying, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the FAther. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God."
So how can it be that Jesus promised the thief they would be in paradise together that very day if Jesus hadn't even ascended yet 3 days later?!
Contradictions Explained
The Luke 23:43 contradiction is the one that seems to go against all of the other evidence, so let's first look at that.
With our knowledge of the Bible and the making of the canon and the translation of the Bible, we can together understand that the punctuation is added in the English, and is not to be taken as the same divinely-inspired content of the Bible. (The same goes for Chapters in the Bible - the books are meant to be read all at once).
If Luke 23:43 is read as :"I tell you the truth today, you will be with me in paradise", all the contradiction falls away. There is no need for Jesus or the thief to be in heaven that very day. the contradiction of Luke 23 and John 20 are relieved.
The Revelations Contradiction & ExplanationThis one troubled me a lot, mostly because I thought of it on my own and couldn't find too much about it. Usually, this happens because of ignorance...
I remember the vast multitudes of people John saw in Revelations, and all of the praise and worship coming from people who had once filled the earth (Revelation 7:9-17). There is no way that all these people could be here if they were still waiting for the Second Coming of Christ in order to ascend to heaven.
The Book starts out with John being told what to write to the seven churches in the province of Asia. These chapters, 1-3, are the words of an angel sent to John. Then John 4 starts with John falling into an ecstatic prophecy (I can talk about this later - there is a good podcast on it by a lady who wrote a book on ecstatic prophecy - basically it's when someone immediately falls into the Spirit - kind of like a mystic does). John 4:1 - After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, "Come up here, And I will show you what must take place after this." This is a prophecy of the future, and what heaven will be like. This happens ALL the way till the end. It is not talking about heaven right now, but heaven in the future. Therefore, it is NOT a contradiction.
So for now, my conclusion is that we go to the grave when we die and wait for the Second Coming of Christ to ascend into heaven.
PART 2
Before the Holy Spirit came into believers [or at Christ's death? or at Resurrection? or Ascension? <- i'm not sure about the timing here...] was the age of the CHURCH OF ISRAEL. This includes all of the OT believers and believers while Christ was alive. They received salvation according to obedience to God's law. They lived by the Law.
Believers that died in this time period went to Abraham's Bosom (as described in Luke 16 when Lazarus died and was resurrected).
Non-believers that died in this time period went to Hades/Hell.
After Pentecost [or at Christ's death? or at Resurrection? or Ascension? <- i'm not sure about the timing here...], when the Holy Spirit began to dwell in believers, was the AGE OF GRACE.
Believers' spirits that died in this time period went to Heaven. Non-believers go to Hell.
The OT believers/CHURCH OF ISRAEL believers ascended with Christ during the Ascension. [or at His death? or at Resurrection? <- i'm not sure about the timing here...]
The end of the AGE OF GRACE is the rapture (1 Thess. 4:13-17) in which the dead in Christ rise to meet the Lord in the air followed by the alive in Christ.
I believe the dead in Christ refers to the bodies of the believers during the AGE OF GRACE. The alive in Christ is obvious.
The OT believers who ascended are referred to as 'the great cloud of witnesses' in Heb 12.
This kinda covers all the problems I was having with soul sleep and etc. This is sturdy.
Summary of the rest of the age:
Other potential problems to address:
*Why is there a 2000+ year gap in Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy?
Daniel was unaware of the AGE OF GRACE, as were all OT believers. This time period is the 'mystery' referred to in Eph 3. Daniel's prophecy was only a prophecy of the CHURCH OF ISRAEL, not of all time. Of course, at the end of the 70 weeks is the rapture. Afterwards comes tribulation.
*What is the mystery?
The mystery was revealed through prophetic writing to the apostles and prophets (Rom 16:25, Eph 3:4-5) -- it was the fact that the Gentiles were included in available salvation. It was a HUGE deal because Israel was God's chosen people. Now, God's people extends beyond Israel to the 'Gentiles'/non-Jews.
*If Christ's second coming is at the end of the Tribulation, how can the rapture be before Tribulation?
During the rapture, we all meet Christ in the AIR - He never sets foot on the ground. He never 'came' again.
At the end of tribulation, Christ comes (Second Coming) to defeat the AntiChrist. The Tribulation period is described in Revelations cc. 6-18.
*Will the Spirit be around during the first 3.5 years of Tribulation to dwell in believers?
I'm not sure based on Scripture, but I could safely assume that the Spirit would NOT dwell in believers because the Church is under the AGE of the LAW/CHURCH OF ISRAEL again.
***WILL BE UPDATING THIS JULY 2011***
PART 1: INCOMPLETE without PART 2
i have decided that following popular belief is ignorant, as I am sure most of you have.
Noah was building the ark and his family was the only one that was saved. All but Noah's family was wicked and wrong. It wouldn't have been a good idea to roll with the majority on this one.
The biggest step in not necessarily going with the popular belief is distinguishing whether the popular belief is biblically-based or man-based. Of course, we only want to believe what is biblically based.
Right now, I am trying to find out whether or not people go to heaven immediately when we die. It is FOR SURE popular belief for Christians that they go to heaven. I want to know whether or not it is right to say R.I.P. or 'have fun in heaven' when someone dies. I, personally, have always done the latter, because that is what I have grown up to believe. However, I am going through this exercise to help me (and others) establish a sensitivity for the truth. Because this is not really an issue of matter, (you won't be doing much on Earth if you are dead or in heaven), it is only an exercise. No stress should be created from discovering this. The answer only matters for truth's sake, and not for application's sake (with the exception of the R.I.P./fun-in-heaven application). The exercise should help me to have a sensitivity to the truth and begin to believe in things because of the Bible and not because of tradition.
I am ultimately seeking after truth, so if you have wisdom to lay out, please do.
The 1 Thessalonians Insight
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 says: For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
The dead in Christ will rise first - these refer to the righteous dead (which, if people don't go to heaven immediately after they die, could refer to Christians & OT'ers who were obedient and faithful to God) -
After that, we who are still alive and left - the righteous living (which would refer to Christians in any case).
We can conclude that the dead in Christ refers to be literally dead, and not people who 'died so that they may receive life' because earlier, in 1 Thess. 4:13-15 the same words (dead/asleep & left/alive) are used.
There are definitely two different sets of people in this illustration, and I believe the only way two separate groups could go to heaven is if one group was left dead on the Earth as believers and another group was left alive on the Earth as believers.
Also, the fact that 1 Thessalonians 4:13-15 refers to the dead as 'those who have fallen asleep' lends insight to this possibility.
The Acts 2 Insight
v29 says: 'Brothers, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day.' vv.30-33 explains that David was a prophet who knew God's oath to him and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, and knew that he was not abandoned to the grave. v.34 says: For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said, "The Lord said to my Lord: 'Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.' "
This can either be taken to mean that David never ascended to heaven, or that David wrote these things without first ascending to heaven. But why even mention that David the patriarch died and his tomb is still here to this day? Personally, because of that verse, I learn more toward David never ascending to heaven.
The Jude 9 Insight
this one is a little bit more tricky. Jude 9 MAY or may not make a direct reference to 'The Assumptions of Moses' which could or could not be entirely inspired. Inspired or not, Jude 9 makes a reference and thus shows that at least this reference is historically accurate. The Assumptions of Moses talks about the account of Moses’ appointing of Joshua as his successor, and a description of the future of Israel during the conquest of the Promised Land, the biblical account of Moses’ death, showing how God used angels to bury Moses. The Assumptions of Moses is sometimes known as the Testament of Moses, but in the cases of two men, Ceriani and Charles, the two seem to be separate texts. Charles argues that the 'Assumption of Moses' should not be called the The Assumption, but 'The Testament of Moses' because it never mentions the Ascension/Assumption of Moses. Ceriani, however, says that the text DOES mention the ascension.
Because of all this ambiguity, I hold this insight EXTREMELY lightly. Jude 9 doesn't scream out 'Moses was specially ressurrected by the archangel Michael after rebuking Satan after Moses' death'. <- (This is what some people claim it says and why this passage is included in my possible insights).
The Psalm 146:4 Insight (not about heaven, but death)
Death is explained to be when your breath/spirit departs (reference to the breath of Life given only by God): 'When their spirit departs, they return to the ground; on that very day their plans come to nothing.'
The Luke 23:43 Contradiction
Jesus says to the thief, 'I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.'
From this, the thief and Jesus went to heaven on that very day! This is totally the opposite of all the insight we have received.
Double Contradiction: John 20:17
Jesus appears to Mary Magdelene saying, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the FAther. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God."
So how can it be that Jesus promised the thief they would be in paradise together that very day if Jesus hadn't even ascended yet 3 days later?!
Contradictions Explained
The Luke 23:43 contradiction is the one that seems to go against all of the other evidence, so let's first look at that.
With our knowledge of the Bible and the making of the canon and the translation of the Bible, we can together understand that the punctuation is added in the English, and is not to be taken as the same divinely-inspired content of the Bible. (The same goes for Chapters in the Bible - the books are meant to be read all at once).
If Luke 23:43 is read as :"I tell you the truth today, you will be with me in paradise", all the contradiction falls away. There is no need for Jesus or the thief to be in heaven that very day. the contradiction of Luke 23 and John 20 are relieved.
The Revelations Contradiction & ExplanationThis one troubled me a lot, mostly because I thought of it on my own and couldn't find too much about it. Usually, this happens because of ignorance...
I remember the vast multitudes of people John saw in Revelations, and all of the praise and worship coming from people who had once filled the earth (Revelation 7:9-17). There is no way that all these people could be here if they were still waiting for the Second Coming of Christ in order to ascend to heaven.
The Book starts out with John being told what to write to the seven churches in the province of Asia. These chapters, 1-3, are the words of an angel sent to John. Then John 4 starts with John falling into an ecstatic prophecy (I can talk about this later - there is a good podcast on it by a lady who wrote a book on ecstatic prophecy - basically it's when someone immediately falls into the Spirit - kind of like a mystic does). John 4:1 - After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, "Come up here, And I will show you what must take place after this." This is a prophecy of the future, and what heaven will be like. This happens ALL the way till the end. It is not talking about heaven right now, but heaven in the future. Therefore, it is NOT a contradiction.
So for now, my conclusion is that we go to the grave when we die and wait for the Second Coming of Christ to ascend into heaven.
PART 2
Before the Holy Spirit came into believers [or at Christ's death? or at Resurrection? or Ascension? <- i'm not sure about the timing here...] was the age of the CHURCH OF ISRAEL. This includes all of the OT believers and believers while Christ was alive. They received salvation according to obedience to God's law. They lived by the Law.
Believers that died in this time period went to Abraham's Bosom (as described in Luke 16 when Lazarus died and was resurrected).
Non-believers that died in this time period went to Hades/Hell.
After Pentecost [or at Christ's death? or at Resurrection? or Ascension? <- i'm not sure about the timing here...], when the Holy Spirit began to dwell in believers, was the AGE OF GRACE.
Believers' spirits that died in this time period went to Heaven. Non-believers go to Hell.
The OT believers/CHURCH OF ISRAEL believers ascended with Christ during the Ascension. [or at His death? or at Resurrection? <- i'm not sure about the timing here...]
The end of the AGE OF GRACE is the rapture (1 Thess. 4:13-17) in which the dead in Christ rise to meet the Lord in the air followed by the alive in Christ.
I believe the dead in Christ refers to the bodies of the believers during the AGE OF GRACE. The alive in Christ is obvious.
The OT believers who ascended are referred to as 'the great cloud of witnesses' in Heb 12.
This kinda covers all the problems I was having with soul sleep and etc. This is sturdy.
Summary of the rest of the age:
- Church of Israel begins
- "one week" passes
- Rapture
- Tribulation part 1: 3.5 years of false peace (as negotiated by the AntiChrist with the Church of Israel), 2 witnesses,
- Tribulation halfway point: Satan + demons declare war against Archangel Michael and angels but are defeated and barred from accusing saints, AntiChrist is empowered by Satan to rule, a False Prophet comes to persuade the world to worship the AntiChrist and other idols/Images, AntiChrist takes away sacrifices in temple and takes back his agreement of peace with the Church of Israel, the Mark of the Beast is set, AntiChrist wages war against Church of Israel, Israel flees (maybe half die?), AntiChrist beheads believers in Christ
- Tribulation part 2: (last 3.5 years) Bowls of Wrath Judgments (rev. 15-16), Destruction of Harlot of Babylon (anti Christ creates a religious organization) (Rev 17), Destruction of Economic Babylon (economy destroyed as AntiChrist sets up his center-of-power) (Rev 18), Battle of Armageddon (somewhere around Jerusalem - Daniel 11:40-45, Revelation 16:12-16, 19:19-21), Second Coming of Christ/Destruction of AntiChrist & False Prophet (Rev 19:19-21)-Jesus casts the Anti-Christ and False Prophet into the Lake of Fire
- Establishment of the Millennial Kingdom: Christ raptures the martyrs of Tribulation to join the 1Thess4 Rapture as an army that judges the world for a period of weeks (Daniel 12:12)
- Millennial Kingdom established: lasts 1000 years, Satan is at the bottom of the pit, the world lives free from Satan's deception [[*? i think they will still have struggles with sin because under the CHURCH OF ISRAEL, sins were inherited from the parents]]
- End of Millenial Kingdom: Satan is released from the pit for a short while and will probably persuade a some people who were struggling with sin to rebel against Christ, Christ finishes everything off by throwing Satan and the rebellion into the Lake of Fire for eternity. All the dead are resurrected and brought to the Great White Throne (Rev 20:11-15) to be judged (everyone whose name is not in the Lamb's Book of Life will then be thrown into the Lake of Fire for eternity as well).
- New Earth and New Heaven for Eternity
Other potential problems to address:
*Why is there a 2000+ year gap in Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy?
Daniel was unaware of the AGE OF GRACE, as were all OT believers. This time period is the 'mystery' referred to in Eph 3. Daniel's prophecy was only a prophecy of the CHURCH OF ISRAEL, not of all time. Of course, at the end of the 70 weeks is the rapture. Afterwards comes tribulation.
*What is the mystery?
The mystery was revealed through prophetic writing to the apostles and prophets (Rom 16:25, Eph 3:4-5) -- it was the fact that the Gentiles were included in available salvation. It was a HUGE deal because Israel was God's chosen people. Now, God's people extends beyond Israel to the 'Gentiles'/non-Jews.
*If Christ's second coming is at the end of the Tribulation, how can the rapture be before Tribulation?
During the rapture, we all meet Christ in the AIR - He never sets foot on the ground. He never 'came' again.
At the end of tribulation, Christ comes (Second Coming) to defeat the AntiChrist. The Tribulation period is described in Revelations cc. 6-18.
*Will the Spirit be around during the first 3.5 years of Tribulation to dwell in believers?
I'm not sure based on Scripture, but I could safely assume that the Spirit would NOT dwell in believers because the Church is under the AGE of the LAW/CHURCH OF ISRAEL again.
Seeing the Second Coming of Christ
the second coming of Christ
much controversy comes about when people discuss the second coming.
for one, they are a little bit confused by what it means.
they ask:
will it be visible?
how will we know when He comes again?
there is also another question that I will also address:
it seemed as if Paul and many other Jews believed that Jesus was coming soon (at least less than 2000 years) - did He already come? and if He did, then where are we now?
answers:
Matthew 24:26-27 - so if anyone tells you, 'there he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or 'here he is, in the inner room,' do not believe it. For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even from the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
will it be visible? - yes. this is also how we will know that He has come again. Like lightning, everyone wills see it. this is blatantly stated in Revelation 1:7 [Look, he is coming with the clouds, ad every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.]
how will we know? - because everyone will be able to see it, and there will be much mourning.
did Christ already come again? - no; we are warned not to believe anyone who says this in Matthew 24:26. we won't be missing out on any information because everyone will be able to see it anyways!
not only will it be visible, but it will be audible. 1 Thessalonians 4:16 - for the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
not only will it be audible, but extremely loud
so, do not believe that Christ has come UNLESS you and EVERYONE else sees it as clearly as lightning visible from every angle.
for one, they are a little bit confused by what it means.
they ask:
will it be visible?
how will we know when He comes again?
there is also another question that I will also address:
it seemed as if Paul and many other Jews believed that Jesus was coming soon (at least less than 2000 years) - did He already come? and if He did, then where are we now?
answers:
Matthew 24:26-27 - so if anyone tells you, 'there he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or 'here he is, in the inner room,' do not believe it. For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even from the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
will it be visible? - yes. this is also how we will know that He has come again. Like lightning, everyone wills see it. this is blatantly stated in Revelation 1:7 [Look, he is coming with the clouds, ad every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.]
how will we know? - because everyone will be able to see it, and there will be much mourning.
did Christ already come again? - no; we are warned not to believe anyone who says this in Matthew 24:26. we won't be missing out on any information because everyone will be able to see it anyways!
not only will it be visible, but it will be audible. 1 Thessalonians 4:16 - for the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
not only will it be audible, but extremely loud
so, do not believe that Christ has come UNLESS you and EVERYONE else sees it as clearly as lightning visible from every angle.
The Kingdom of Heaven is Near
---REPOST FROM XANGA MAY 2010---
In Matthew, Jesus commands us to preach 'the kingdom of heaven is near.'
Matthew 10:7-8 - As you go, preach this message: 'the kingdom of heaven is near.' heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.'
Jesus quotes himself in Luke 10 and tells them to enter the house and eat all that is before you. do not move from house to house. v9 - 'heal the sick who are there and tell them, the kingdom of God is near you'. he goes on to teach that when a town is not welcoming, say 'even the dust of your town that sticks to our feet we wipe off against you. Yet be sure of this: the kingdom of God is near you'.
I used to always think of this in terms of time - the kingdom of heaven is coming soon. however, I believe we are to take this geographically, understanding that the kingdom of heaven is being brought on the shoulders of these 72 in Luke, as it was brought on the shoulders of Christ and the apostles. They were, in essence, saying: 'we are representing the kingdom of heaven. here we are. receive or do not receive, but know that the kingdom of heaven has come near to you.'
plus! the point of the 72 going out two-by-two before Jesus went to those towns was to work the fields before the Lord of the Harvest came.
In Matthew, Jesus commands us to preach 'the kingdom of heaven is near.'
Matthew 10:7-8 - As you go, preach this message: 'the kingdom of heaven is near.' heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.'
Jesus quotes himself in Luke 10 and tells them to enter the house and eat all that is before you. do not move from house to house. v9 - 'heal the sick who are there and tell them, the kingdom of God is near you'. he goes on to teach that when a town is not welcoming, say 'even the dust of your town that sticks to our feet we wipe off against you. Yet be sure of this: the kingdom of God is near you'.
I used to always think of this in terms of time - the kingdom of heaven is coming soon. however, I believe we are to take this geographically, understanding that the kingdom of heaven is being brought on the shoulders of these 72 in Luke, as it was brought on the shoulders of Christ and the apostles. They were, in essence, saying: 'we are representing the kingdom of heaven. here we are. receive or do not receive, but know that the kingdom of heaven has come near to you.'
plus! the point of the 72 going out two-by-two before Jesus went to those towns was to work the fields before the Lord of the Harvest came.
Watchmen
---REPOST FROM XANGA MAY 2010---
Watchmen (Ezekiel 33)
WE are the WATCHMEN! we are to sound the horn and warn our people that the enemy is coming! And the enemy is definitely coming, but our people don't even know it. This is the result of the WATCHMEN's failure! and we know what happens to the watchmen for this - he is held accountable for all the blood.
it is OUR job to MAKE people turn from their wicked ways. to WARN them about their ends as a wicked person. it is NOT our duty to JUST HELP. it is MORE. it is WARNING and SAVING. Matthew Henry gives some good insight, "How much wiser are men in their temporal than in their spiritual concerns! They set watchmen to guard their houses, and sentinels to warn of the enemies' approach, but where the everlasting happiness or misery of the soul is at stake, they are offended if ministers obey their Master's command, and give a faithful warning; they would rather perish, listening to smooth things."
Watchmen (Ezekiel 33)
WE are the WATCHMEN! we are to sound the horn and warn our people that the enemy is coming! And the enemy is definitely coming, but our people don't even know it. This is the result of the WATCHMEN's failure! and we know what happens to the watchmen for this - he is held accountable for all the blood.
it is OUR job to MAKE people turn from their wicked ways. to WARN them about their ends as a wicked person. it is NOT our duty to JUST HELP. it is MORE. it is WARNING and SAVING. Matthew Henry gives some good insight, "How much wiser are men in their temporal than in their spiritual concerns! They set watchmen to guard their houses, and sentinels to warn of the enemies' approach, but where the everlasting happiness or misery of the soul is at stake, they are offended if ministers obey their Master's command, and give a faithful warning; they would rather perish, listening to smooth things."
Defense For Continuationism 1
---REPOST FROM XANGA MAY 2010---
*note: these are THOUGHTS still to be confirmed. not validated. i'm writing them here for memory's sake, contemplation, and input.
- thoughts from the shower:
- the Gentiles didn't pray properly, but that didn't mean the early Christians stopped praying.
when we are advised to 'have nothing to do with these people', it obviously didn't mean cut out all similar activity.
when the gnostics and other early church sects came about, people decided that 'having nothing to do with them' meant dropping the things they had in similar, including their 'supernatural' spiritual gifts.
I put supernatural in quotes because I know that they still acted on the gift of mercy, love, pastoring, etc etc. and these ARE spiritual! - when people tell me to look at the history of the church as their defense against my testimonies, and to look at the history of the church to make decisions, i scour
something felt so wrong about it - and I now know why.
These people are telling me to look at the church history experiences of the past in order to make decisions in my theology! This is what I believe is dangerous with a lot of 'traditionalistic' churches. These people tell me, 'Why do you think the church's supernatural ability died out for so long?' 'How is it that it sprang up all of a sudden about a century ago?' (i'll answer these below)
I use experience to either confirm or negate (only in the positive direction. if you're experience doesn't match up with another one, you just did not have the same magnitude of an experience. HOWEVER, if your experience goes beyond what your theology says is possible, investigate your experience more and you may need to consider that your theology was wrong). This does NOT mean that you add things to your theology based on an experience; your experience was confirmation/negation. I AM suggesting to you go back and take a better look at Scripture to come to a better conclusion in your theology.
One thing that people look down on the Charismatic church for is 'validating their theology based on experience'. I don't think that is the case anymore. (I'm not sure if this was ever the case other than a couple of preachers... and we all know not to judge a denomination based on a couple of preachers)
Now, you tell me who the one making dangerous decisions about theology is.
Answers to Questions:
'Why do you think the church's supernatural ability died out for so long?'
**because people wanted to imitate the church's powers - so they did, via witchcraft and sorcery, following omens/signs to live, producing fake prophets, producing real psychics, becoming spiritual apart from God. (note: they imitated because they saw REAL POWER). I would say, a lot of confirmation is given by imitators; it almost always means that there is a valid REAL force that they can see. When people started imitating the church, it got difficult for non-Christians to distinguish between the two. So, 'taking heart' to the wise advice of their forefathers, they tried to have nothing to do with their evil brethren, and gave up all of their spiritual authority in order to have new believers more easily accept them.
It doesn't sound so bad, giving up something in order for new believers to come in. But it IS bad. If we were to give up prayer because it made people uncomfortable, would you? NO.
Plus, they made it hard for us now. When people stopped caring about what others thought, when they started getting intimate with God no matter what the cost, there was an outpouring of intimacy and spiritual power. Recovering from such a hard journey is tough for the 'resurrected'. It's hard to work against church history that lacks spiritual gifts because people have not been taught about the spiritual gifts for so long! A lot of people think it is fake BECAUSE they have never been taught it! what a foolish way to make decisions =/
'How is it that it sprang up all of a sudden about a century ago?'
**wups. i answered this above. c/p: When people stopped caring about what others thought, when they started getting intimate with God no matter what the cost, there was an outpouring of intimacy and spiritual power. - the Gentiles didn't pray properly, but that didn't mean the early Christians stopped praying.
Waiting for God by Moving into Action
---REPOST FROM XANGA MARCH 2010---
I've been wondering lately if some of us waste our time trying to 'wait for God's timing'.
Especially for those who do not here God's voice clearly, how do they know when God is telling them to do something?
If our original Greek believe meant to 'move to action', then just simply by believing (and our extra unnecessary premise of 'feeling compelled' - b/c it should be that way anyways - our natural agreement and belief should be compelling to us) we should be doing something.
I'm not sure if remaining dormant till 'God's timing' is correct is the best way to go, unless that means understanding that in most cases, 'God's timing' is based on when we will be mature enough, or when other people involved will be ready.
I think there's a kind of block we put ourselves into when we convince ourselves that we shouldn't do anything until God initiates us.
I think we are ready - we're already called into action by the Great Commission, so why wait for an extra nudge?
I think it could even be possible that all these times where God has done something extraordinary in our lives that have helped us feel like it's the right time (often when a ton of similar events occur within a short period of time), could be God just pushing us. It would make sense, to me at least, that God will be delighted with our own initiation of His mission rather than having to wait like a baby bird to be pushed out of the nest.
I think 'waiting for God's timing' is important, but if it causes you to be dormant, then you really aren't waiting for God's timing - you're waiting to get some confidence.
There are SO many 'exceptions', (quoted because they occur under entirely different circumstances).
Great biblical one - In Acts, the apostles are pumped to get working on their world-outreach mission, but God tells them to stop and wait for the Holy Spirit. So they do. And then they go out and do it - they believe.
The difference is that God told them directly 'DO NOT GO YET'.
One possibility is that although Scripture didn't record it, God was telling them every step.
Personally, I doubt this because of all the doubt that they felt.
On another note, I think that if we were supposed to wait to do anything till God shoves His will (already prescribed to us) in our face, then God would have made a big point of mentioning this when He breathed scripture through the authors.
I may be slightly biased and ignorant at the moment, but I think that we should be actively engaging others all the time (minus sleep and solitude with God).
I think that because we have a mission to work on already, we should be confident that it is what we are supposed to do.
I think we need to make sure to use our God-given intelligence and people-reading skills, as well as self-evaluation skills to determine when we should act often and when we should build ourselves up.
There was some very important stuff I had to say, but I can't remember.
ONE THING THOUGH, this post has A LOT to do with people who have been trying to wait till God called them to something without using their minds to reason through things. Often, I see this kind of person rotting - obviously, it shouldn't be this way. I think that we should use our reasoning to figure out what we should be doing but still earnestly pray and seek God's guidance. He will guide you.
And I realize this must seem very self-contradictory, but the fine line is that we should never be inactive and waiting on a decision. It should be prayed about, thought about, but never laying untouched waiting for God to call/push.
If you make the wrong decision, God will certainly call you out of it. And when this happens, for goodness sake think about the timing! You made a decision based on your logic and reasoning, which you shouldn't ENTIRELY doubt it was faulty - it may just have been the wrong time.
move into action because we already have the call.
but for GOODNESS SAKE LISTEN FOR GOD'S VOICE.
Discern between God's voice and other voices, just as the sheep did.
In the middle east, shepherds lead from the FRONT (unlike the common 'driving' cattle/sheep we know). they followed the voice of their shepherd. If a foreign shepherd came, they would hear what he says, but not follow b/c they recognized that it wasn't their shepherd.
I've been wondering lately if some of us waste our time trying to 'wait for God's timing'.
Especially for those who do not here God's voice clearly, how do they know when God is telling them to do something?
If our original Greek believe meant to 'move to action', then just simply by believing (and our extra unnecessary premise of 'feeling compelled' - b/c it should be that way anyways - our natural agreement and belief should be compelling to us) we should be doing something.
I'm not sure if remaining dormant till 'God's timing' is correct is the best way to go, unless that means understanding that in most cases, 'God's timing' is based on when we will be mature enough, or when other people involved will be ready.
I think there's a kind of block we put ourselves into when we convince ourselves that we shouldn't do anything until God initiates us.
I think we are ready - we're already called into action by the Great Commission, so why wait for an extra nudge?
I think it could even be possible that all these times where God has done something extraordinary in our lives that have helped us feel like it's the right time (often when a ton of similar events occur within a short period of time), could be God just pushing us. It would make sense, to me at least, that God will be delighted with our own initiation of His mission rather than having to wait like a baby bird to be pushed out of the nest.
I think 'waiting for God's timing' is important, but if it causes you to be dormant, then you really aren't waiting for God's timing - you're waiting to get some confidence.
There are SO many 'exceptions', (quoted because they occur under entirely different circumstances).
Great biblical one - In Acts, the apostles are pumped to get working on their world-outreach mission, but God tells them to stop and wait for the Holy Spirit. So they do. And then they go out and do it - they believe.
The difference is that God told them directly 'DO NOT GO YET'.
One possibility is that although Scripture didn't record it, God was telling them every step.
Personally, I doubt this because of all the doubt that they felt.
On another note, I think that if we were supposed to wait to do anything till God shoves His will (already prescribed to us) in our face, then God would have made a big point of mentioning this when He breathed scripture through the authors.
I may be slightly biased and ignorant at the moment, but I think that we should be actively engaging others all the time (minus sleep and solitude with God).
I think that because we have a mission to work on already, we should be confident that it is what we are supposed to do.
I think we need to make sure to use our God-given intelligence and people-reading skills, as well as self-evaluation skills to determine when we should act often and when we should build ourselves up.
There was some very important stuff I had to say, but I can't remember.
ONE THING THOUGH, this post has A LOT to do with people who have been trying to wait till God called them to something without using their minds to reason through things. Often, I see this kind of person rotting - obviously, it shouldn't be this way. I think that we should use our reasoning to figure out what we should be doing but still earnestly pray and seek God's guidance. He will guide you.
And I realize this must seem very self-contradictory, but the fine line is that we should never be inactive and waiting on a decision. It should be prayed about, thought about, but never laying untouched waiting for God to call/push.
If you make the wrong decision, God will certainly call you out of it. And when this happens, for goodness sake think about the timing! You made a decision based on your logic and reasoning, which you shouldn't ENTIRELY doubt it was faulty - it may just have been the wrong time.
move into action because we already have the call.
but for GOODNESS SAKE LISTEN FOR GOD'S VOICE.
Discern between God's voice and other voices, just as the sheep did.
In the middle east, shepherds lead from the FRONT (unlike the common 'driving' cattle/sheep we know). they followed the voice of their shepherd. If a foreign shepherd came, they would hear what he says, but not follow b/c they recognized that it wasn't their shepherd.
Righteousness by Faith
---REPOST FROM MY XANGA MARCH 2010---
Romans 3
21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.
--Righteousness isn't by law, it's by faith in Jesus Christ. Therefore, the man who has real authentic faith, were he to find himself in an uncontrollable desire to sin explicitly, would STILL BE SAVED.
I don't care for the mumbo-jumbo crap that says 'blatant sin proves you're not Christian.'
bullocks.
you just want a hierarchy of righteousness, which will never exist.
There are many, MANY levels of righteousness. the problem is, all but one are ALMOST IDENTICAL.
if i were to make a graph, which i am doing right now, it would like this: (haha that actually took a while..)
I see some Mother Teresa types peaking out, some Christian humanitarians and the like. Some pastors, top-of-the league guys. I see a few slackers or people struggling too...
but now let's look at a more proper graph (if you could say ANY of these are proper... haha)
we're going to compare a bunch of people to God in terms of righteousness.
And that's the point.. you can never succeed in making a 'righteousness' or 'holiness' hierarchy!
It's absolutely ridiculous. It's like one of this iddy-bitty peaks telling the other guys, follow me because I'm above all of you.
For one thing, I can barely see you Mr. Peak, and for another, there are other people just like you!! Why would anyone follow you?
You are hardly anymore sin free than any other person!
there is, of course, an answer - when God appoints you.
So wait till then, and remember that God will bring the followers, too.
Romans 3
21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.
--Righteousness isn't by law, it's by faith in Jesus Christ. Therefore, the man who has real authentic faith, were he to find himself in an uncontrollable desire to sin explicitly, would STILL BE SAVED.
I don't care for the mumbo-jumbo crap that says 'blatant sin proves you're not Christian.'
bullocks.
you just want a hierarchy of righteousness, which will never exist.
There are many, MANY levels of righteousness. the problem is, all but one are ALMOST IDENTICAL.
if i were to make a graph, which i am doing right now, it would like this: (haha that actually took a while..)
I see some Mother Teresa types peaking out, some Christian humanitarians and the like. Some pastors, top-of-the league guys. I see a few slackers or people struggling too...
but now let's look at a more proper graph (if you could say ANY of these are proper... haha)
we're going to compare a bunch of people to God in terms of righteousness.
And that's the point.. you can never succeed in making a 'righteousness' or 'holiness' hierarchy!
It's absolutely ridiculous. It's like one of this iddy-bitty peaks telling the other guys, follow me because I'm above all of you.
For one thing, I can barely see you Mr. Peak, and for another, there are other people just like you!! Why would anyone follow you?
You are hardly anymore sin free than any other person!
there is, of course, an answer - when God appoints you.
So wait till then, and remember that God will bring the followers, too.
Make the most of every opportunity
Ephesians 5:15-16
"Be careful, then, how you live -- not as unwise but as wise, making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil."
-so many times there is an opportunity graciously given by the Lord. And when that door opens, too many times we are distracted and
keep walking into the wall beside the door. We need to stay focused on the Lord, for if we do so, He will guide us through the door.
-And i think that a lot of the distractions have a core consisting of fear. There should never be any fear. When God opens the door, we
should waltz through, not tip-toe out, because we are always safe in the hands of our God.
-so to this i say "go out and be fearless. When you see an opportunity, pounce on it. A jump only places you before the opportunity or
on top of it; a pounce engages you in the opportunity."
"Be careful, then, how you live -- not as unwise but as wise, making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil."
-so many times there is an opportunity graciously given by the Lord. And when that door opens, too many times we are distracted and
keep walking into the wall beside the door. We need to stay focused on the Lord, for if we do so, He will guide us through the door.
-And i think that a lot of the distractions have a core consisting of fear. There should never be any fear. When God opens the door, we
should waltz through, not tip-toe out, because we are always safe in the hands of our God.
-so to this i say "go out and be fearless. When you see an opportunity, pounce on it. A jump only places you before the opportunity or
on top of it; a pounce engages you in the opportunity."
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)